Read this: Channel 4: Born Risky - but will it stay that way?

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What could have privatise Channel 4 mean for the publicly-owned channel the Independent programme makers that supplied and the view is that?

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Tell you to me the headlines over Easter is a quick Roundup of the media news has been breaking this week.

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200000 subscribers in the first quarter of 20-22 so this week we decided to take a deeper look at a story making waves close to home the privatisation or potential privatisation Channel 4 with me today is nearly reporter and column writer for The Guardian Observer and others Tara Conlan hi Tara before we get on Channel 4 you repeat last week for the RTS on the Revenge of the Radio Star after you've seen all this Talent going from the BBC in the podcast in that piece.

Did you did you say we finally reached peak podcast going to be telling people are realising that when it gets a certain level in their career that they can have more control more say over the program content has also had this global appeal.

Take me to you no more Sheriff of the revenue that might entail so I think think we're gonna probably see if they can be themselves more.

Yes, I'm trying to get on to talk about control and ideas and I pee a little bit later on producer consultant us the Stephen T Wright Stephen just the pandemic you were making a chauffeured C4 called celebrity call centre.

He also started your career that I think on the words and payment some point as well see Channel 4 is your spiritual home or just in a previous fracture need it's my first love it's all those things you know contemptuous graduate, but it's used to have them objectivity let you know I have a special place in my heart for Channel 4.

What's that in the moment also with me is the founder of gold wallpaper as Osman you've done many things and you also a previous Channel 4 editor of education I see scanner for your LinkedIn for that before the Paralympics happened, so I was over actually there when Channel 4 did it first Paralympics hit in 2012 and yeah before then.

I was all day Steve looks a lot more handsome than me.

I was always envious of that era of Channel 4 where where it had that kind of lead to it and so it was very much when I was growing up was was part of that that audience really sore channel4.com alive and do something different and exciting which I think is particularly for our generation has been a thing that is that will be passionate about also for us to turn on the show for a little while back in I think 2015 you describe two potential Protos patient of C4 as lunacy.

Is that still your views?

Could you search big words for 7 years ago? Yeah, I think it I think it probably is I'm sure we'll get deep into the weeds of it, but I've yet to come across a person thinks it is a out-and-out good idea.

Maybe one on this bike off Netflix subscription problems in lucky advertising CNN plus is going to close less than a month after it launched and of course the news just before we went on break that the government has decided to push ahead with privatising Channel 4 and where we come from White worry.

Is this point now that the government the same we're going to press this button play some deep philosophical Media inspired landscape changing inspired reason and that's what's been said.

About the money, it's how it's people know about including Nadine dorries, I think but it's essentially it get some free spectrum the government and its funded by advertising and it's a bit like the National Theatre we have the other other channels that it has it's sort of channels and please help fund the more risky stuff.

You know and it gives its brakes and lots of lots of shows like Derry girls.

I suppose and and the wonderful Channel 4 news, it's essentially down to money and under thing which I'm eagerly fascinated by this idea of this free spectrum, which as broadband and the treatments increased in this on demand world pandemic more people having have a better broadband and going onto things like Netflix that free spectrum.

I think it's not going to be worth as much money.

I don't know whether or not the government has so well.

You know as we go over the internet only what's this respect and yes, there are other things like you know due prominence on on EPG which worth money but I think samples licence is up in 2024 so I'm heading up by Michael grey.

He wanted to buy it.

It's is a son of a psychodrama that you couldn't really right but I think at the end of the day.

It's cash-based isn't it potentially maybe some people say revenge based because of what channel for her some ice sculptures with the government but ultimately does the Tories have been waiting to have a go at give him a good goal kick in.

4 is one of the only Tory party accessories that everybody likes you know it's out of 82-92 Margaret Thatcher with the Grapes of you.

No chance innovator and somehow they create incredible to the free market to do experiment at work.

I mean so it's just it's just insane this kind of hatred of Channel 4 at the moment.

That's what seems to be coming out from the government and the government funded article to read in the Daily Mail and whatever the fact that Dorothy Byrne called out.

You know Boris is a liar at the Edinburgh festival 4 years ago, when it was it is the mark of the government they can you hold grudges and they are trying to do something that sounds kind of I don't know you have radical for the red meat supporters of the right-wing government but none of this make sense number that makes sense in any way whether it's financial intellectual uniform a programmers perspective the worst thing from from from Channel 4 from the TV industry perspective.

This sort of the marketplace of the Indies you know this is how the 2 billion a year sector was Grown from through Channel 4 through buying programs and digital for for some weird non-specific reason because I don't think it is you know to help streaming in all that kind of stuff is just bizarre.

We had call Daisy on the podcast a couple of weeks ago and he said that sometimes in television people in TV were conservative with a small C&A and their minds won't open two different things were in a massive a period of change for TV and a golden age should have simultaneously nugget of truth in you can't keep TV channel was in a preserved in Aspic and the there should be some changes.

I think it has been broadly healthy.

I think that we should always continue to debate if public service is doing the

Need to do I have no disrespect that and doing that we both BBC and Channel 4 is is an essential part of of how we should have Public Service Broadcasting otherwise what kind of the public don't get to debate what is a Public Service Broadcasting as a whole I agree with and I have had a quite strong views about the Channel 4 remit and and what it should be doing moving forward, but I think in the Broad question of is privatisation the right answer to that debate did the answer is obviously know anybody that doesn't see that it's obviously know either missing formed or disingenuous in in their approach are wise wise obviously no then because there's no no let's do this study multiple reports has been lots of industry analysis of variance analysis about it.

That is something that one but I think that there is certainly a misunderstanding with the public.

Channel 4 is a public service broadcaster and is owned by the public but not paid for in any way by public.

It doesn't take money for the licence fee which is a mistake that Nadine dorries made in the community and I imagine it's something that is it is equally when you say to somebody else three did you know the Channel 4 is owned by the public they probably think we'll get me some my licence fee may go to to finding some of it and that was an argument that was married that may stop slicing the licence fee to top up the channel for coffee that never happened to those days.

I've always been part of the kind of debate and discourse around Public Service Broadcasting and how we fund it but the the key thing for me is a reason why we are I would argue by far the best in the world making television particularly factual television is because we had a mixed ecology of customers and from our perspective and produce of the publishers and if we start twin with that and monkey with it without any Clear Vision as to why this is required right.

It doesn't matter about broadcast it doesn't really matter about how the technology is used to get programming into people's homes the actual economy and ecology of doing it is always gonna be impacted regardless of whether we get it do a broadband pipe with you.

Get it through an old school UHF you no TV signal it's the same when it comes to how the program is funded and it is not clear what you want to replace this until you can have that clarity.

I don't really see the logic of going well.

Let's get rid of it particularly when it continues to be profitable and it continues to not cause any problem to the public purse and I'm actually don't think that the money you want to get from a side of it is definitely not going to be a figure that is is being touted around at the moment my view on this is a broadly agree with Steven that this is a cultural thing if you read the masculine in the Daily Mail it's this whole Madness they got around the woke Lefty chat and anything what's really particularly interesting is that it's an illustration about how poorly.

Noticed in this country but worldwide have moved between you and it's amazing you've been very broad Strokes but the Conservative Party supporting business and the Labour Party supporting workers to flip to be a conversation about the Labour Party supporting voices from all sorts of different corners and the Tory Party trying to stamp out voices that don't agree with a particular viewpoint of what grit should be and that is kind of where we got to that.

There's been a sensor the voices that have come through from Channel 4 and you can pick a choose because it does not say program in but he can choose certain voices and certain program in the country Channel 4.

It doesn't agree with Nadine's viewpoint and the current Tory Party front bench viewpoint and therefore it should be other punished or friend.

We got rid of politicians who would like to get involved in media could be honest that's that's the whole thing I mean Stephen one of the discussions from people is when we get on to Channel 4 remit in the if you look up Prime Time

It's perhaps a bit different now than it used to be I mean saving today and he is it is it what people having their minds so is it just another channel.

That's maybe a little bit more skewed to you for being a little more typos.

It's definitely a channel worth saving because it's still a speak to Channel and it's not as distinctive as it was 30 years ago when everything they put on was kind of radical and outrageous.

It's become much more commercially savvy it become much more successful in the ratings of blended out a little bit and become very similar to survive TV and and BBC2 you know the fact about to come back after I think that makes it a much stronger channel of the commercial success, but it's not as distinctive in its old-fashioned USP of being risky and risk-taking and whatever I mean.

I don't think there's anything you can normally always tell when you watch a Channel 4 shows your flick.

The channels you can still tell enough that's the big thing about a channel when it has a proper identity.

That's the big artistic challenge eternal.

Thought you notice still somehow still be independent still be a unique position.

You know you've got external for staff running ITV you put external Force mesh running you know various channels, and if you do, do you keep the DNA are you still sort of doing the council thing is difficult to have because the of auntie Channel 4.

I'll give it is also.

It's all naked attraction Gogglebox repeat so whatever where is the pro Channel 4 Gogglebox with a radical hit in creation.

No other channels were done it.

It's make money that it's created as you know you still got things that it's a sin coming on you've got me a dirty girls as I said you got amazing comedy you still going to be my thing we don't have the Old Channel 4 that people still have instead of hardwired in their brain.

It's a bit moved on I mean I like.

Opinions on weight should be doing watching be doing but it's still chance for you know it's up to something at 45 baftas.

You know it's incredible this year.

You know it's still doing it still amazing work and you know I'll fight to the bitter end for it at our of the government say that the again want to make channel for more competitive and it is part of their their reasoning they think it being aligned someone else will give it more firepower to compete more you think that's the case even a line to a vicon more or somewhere else.

Will it help them grow and develop million? I think you are back office functions, so I mean some cost could be taking it out.

If it doesn't seem that the government will let.

Channel 4 do that they tried it.

I'm moving more at the start of the regions.

They came up the plan which I think got leaked out what else can we do and that will be even more easily be even more local and the government really didn't want to engage with that.

So there is an issue there in terms of is all about contents only ip-only back catalogue and Channel 4 doesn't do that, but what it does do is invest in the great time so it invests smaller Indies who you know I know I speak to approach Netflix they can't get on their platform straight away, but they might get a show they might do I don't know what I think they might get a small show which might then lead to a bigger show so it's letting nose smaller Indies get on that prefers rung of the ladder which of the channel for his been.

Good and also it's it's difficult to make it more competitive.

Yes, if Netflix is coming into the advertising market and there are more you know a voice there are more advertising streaming platforms out there now which is going could potentially impact on Channel 4 because I'll be more contestants for the advertising but equally with the cost of living crisis and she said to most people ok.

You've got a streaming services in your heating back on Netflix or whatever so at that time at the moment.

That's why it if you said what you've got enough for you.

You're the public you don't have to pay for it to pay for advertising brilliant excellent.

I would love to keep thank you very much if it's a bigger competitor to ITV or probably foreign-owned if it's what will that do to the to the you know the broadcasting college in this country?

Maybe something like help with Jodie comer will be there be something like it's a sin Russell T Davies but still would that show have happened on a Honor on a you know when you got All Creatures Great And Small on Channel 5 so maybe it would have that particular voice and Legacy of taking risks that perhaps others don't I think it's you need funding system allows it to do that and it should be allowed to keep going back to government and saying well.

You know maybe I don't know if they're bigger brains than mine working on this but you know allowed to own some of the the ipip long-term is there a first-look deal if if we took that risk for you take that risk.

Are you allowed to have that on your streaming service for a reduced fee or something like that already exist.

I don't know but there must be some kind of way of working out rather than just flogging it off far as an Indian running indeed.

What's a likely new owner? What is what is effect on campus at yours companies of of my size? You know we can be confident and we can go to Netflix and Disney plus and Amazon a conversation with all of them and we can see if there's a possibility to to get some is away, but the sauce scale they need is it not necessarily something that we can support the infrastructure that we have so so Channel 4 are still one of the few places that will buy an idea of paper which makes it vital for us and for lots of small Indies arrive at diverse own door or regional or distant startups and to take that away is going to be a real risk.

There's obviously a lot of conversation about Channel 4 making it in programming in house the thing that I've been quite vocal about for a while, but even before this news drops is I don't think personally channel is doing anywhere near enough.

Work with the amount of Indies from from from outside of outside of the kind of the status Quo you know the report that came out broadcast recently is at the vast majority of money still going to you big established in these that they are also servicing those they streamers and and and I feel like more needs to be done to ensure that they continue to support company because that is what channel full setup to do is to continue to to find you creatives and inspire them and commission them and to get lots of people into this industry and continue to allowed to thrivers as as one of the Crown Jewels of the British economy when it comes to creativity and TV you know we are we are something that is giving a lot to the public.

So why you would want to again Jackie with that is beyond me.

I was hoping you know it.

Maybe was naive with me, but I was hoping that this debate was being has in good faith.

And actually would see some some interesting idea why put one forward which I strongly believe in that if they want to continue to work with you know that but it was a broad stroke when I was saying if there's not a massive channel and there are lots of production companies and consultants now that have a significantly bigger balance sheet and Channel 4 does that supplies programmes Channel 4 my view is that if those people want a commission Channel 4 they should be made to work with a smaller company what I call her grow pro or a first GoPro they should be made to work with original company or a diverse company to allow those companies describing wind and we can all learn we can all benefit from that that is something that a new private owners is not good.

Why would they do that are not interested in that is risky, if that is something that this whole point of this channel was to take me to see if you're going to privatise the whole point of privatisation is to mitigate risks Steven what do we know about people inside channel4.com see they've made their views known to the government.

They came up with.

UCLan did they underperform in trying to get their views across or with the government always everfix mind what one of the brains in the building been been thinking part of the past difficult question I don't know if there are any brains not going anymore but but then I speak with an old school Channel 4 commissioning where it was all fire and brimstone and you know you fight to the death and what kind of stuff with me night big is turned off or is that too conservative and two safe and had done that kind of don't notice as we won't make a noise you know please let me leave us alone and custard been caught out.

You know they should have been screaming about this.

You know from the rooftops.

You know whether or not this actually going to happen.

Is this actually going to happen.

Is it going to go through this or two-year process etc etc? You know I still think possibly not because nobody nobody is is for this other than a coterie of hard right wing Tory dance inside the government that could be out in a couple of years, but basically I did Channel 4 who played this badly.

Who played it play it Safe I've tried to sort of you know keep their head under the power button and and say go with really really good channel.

You know we make money for people we were unable to do this with whatever they should have been screaming and shouting and saying that we are in a cultural treasure.

There's no other coming in the world that can form in every every global TV producer the thing about an amazing of Halo effect for British TV and things go round the world because they were on Channel 4 unit 4.

Is this very well people think they can you no nudity late night programmes in and it's actually a really really creative been that make the BBC you know is worth fighting for and and it said have a unique position and when it was what 20-year anniversary 10-years when I joined again.

One and we talked about doing today bit anniversary, let's not to celebrate ourselves.

Let's just let's go and it's 40 years old this it's a major accomplishment and they should have been going on about it forever and instead they they put on a couple of side of ridiculously so tawdry shows like the 360.

You know the Great British sex experiment on a Friday night and think that somehow the glory is it doesn't it's a bit a bit of everything and I think this has been the problem Channel 4.

I've done this for did they activate the supporters enough in the intersection of the letters for advertisers their response from India broadcasters to broadcast magazine as well.

You should I don't know and I'm sure there are other Indies that may be a part of the refund or they have got a better relationship with Channel 4.

I didn't hear anything I got some kind of round-robin emails.

And paste in and sent to me saying please write to your MP you know we would have gone out about for them if we had the opportunity my my view.

Is is that there wasn't a coherent manner that we could get behind you know there was a thing about you altogether different did a big campaign around that and that was a big public campaign.

I think it's offline on its face.

I don't really think the public understand what it was in the past to do a Holborn risky and you own ear and etc it obviously hasn't cut through I still think there are a lot of people that don't understand the way the channel for sunbed and and and why it is useful to go cross-eyed.

I don't disagree with that.

I think it's important to remember that the Paralympics has a different thing to get across and their campaign around that was absolutely extraordinary.

You know the when when it came out there campaign round Black Mirror was absolutely for creative as an as an in-house advertising creative.

I would argue the best in certain in the country.

If not the world when it comes to do in public campaigns.

What day it was quite ironic that it didn't feel like they were able to do it about themselves as a entirety and anything it's really easy for us producers and for people that work in this industry to yes.

It is obvious.

Yes, it is well.

Say yes, if you do because to us.

It's you don't even understand why it's even a conversation, but the reality is that you know we are in the minority and you know it if that kind of conversation Twitter where am I shall see each other on Twitter and then we're all kind of shocked when the political thing earthquake happens because we didn't hear it happening on our on our social channels and I think that our industry perspective.

Is is not you know we have not been given the tools to communicate that to the public regarding a fan of this one of the biggest broadcasters in the country and that was a bit of a tuna T I think there's been comments on evening but we can't hear about It's a Sin and Derry girls etc, but really Channel 4 haven't done anything that I think is move the needle culturally.

The Paralympics right you wasn't with a massive big here, but I do think they have been big hits on other channels.

You know that have been real big compliment to a line of duty was a massive compliment body gold and we have done there has been things that you wanted it made of forget created a national conversation around sexuality and in this and you know the AIDS crisis in the same way, but they are happy and have a programs another broadcast that have done that but there's been did not been much when it comes to going this big in a black to front wasn't was an interesting experiment.

We need to have one of those every at least every year if not every six months.

We can go only Channel 4 would do that and you know and there are things that you claim is of they always kind of things like that kind of rub down at the edges and I think that you know we need to be maybe Stand Up to Cancer was the thing that we could we could all rally around yeah, but really it's it's not enough then.

It's not frequent enough and and therefore the purpose of Channel 4 it is difficult to communicate a bit.

A business principle which I think is a struggle.

I mean taro Steven can talk talk to a little bit better about this is still a little way away and you know a change of government might change the direction pretty quickly everyone the potential purchasers Channel 4 if it is sold and the government the same colour Billy and I think the markets probably saying more half a billion if you've got a commitment still there who's in who's in the frame who would who who would like to add C42 there to their portfolio evaluation because you know as we're just saying how are you? How do you describe that? I mean my family and friends.

It's like you know you and that's quite a simple proposition.

I think if it if it becomes privatised it's

It's another broadcaster.

It's it might be public service.

We still don't know exactly where the money is going to go.

I mean it was set up with ITV money but that was sort of subsidised by the government at the time does some of that money go back to the government.

Where does it? When is it all go? I think we're still not entirely clear on that and I think it makes it difficult for any purchaser to know where it you know a new to the market place.

Would there be a guarantee on the EPG 2024 so if you buy it now.

It's gone through now due diligence potentially change of government.

Could that change that holds the cell process? It's quite anyone.

I think looking at it as what they get actually going to be buying which does ITV has obviously been neutered that would sort of make make sense.

Meet you for awhile viacom because of the idea which has been around for a while about merging Channel 4 Channel 5 back-office functions and you got the ad sales houses which is well with both but you know it could be bought by anyone as a lot of French venture capital backed firms around at the moment like you know anyone could really theoretically quiet at the moment.

It's it's such a such a mish mash.

I think people don't really know what they're going to buy and it could become a twick it become you know we could go back to someone like him.

You know goodbye I doubt it, but you just don't know and I think it's very difficult to value it.

It's very difficult to say he will actually buy it would hopefully by public service mentality who would realise its value, but who knows is the solution to this desperate to have.

Play private eyes and everyone else thinks it's terrible idea.

What about telling it to BBC Studios they've got UK TV which has been very successful over the past 4 years any profits would go back into Broadley public public broadcasting is BBC Studios the answer Steven maybe it's really good to me the problem is the BBC still doesn't have anything like the spirit the Channel 4 have even a watered-down version so if you could if you could keep looking forward to do whatever it is DNA somehow intact then yes of course.

I mean I personally I think he's a better match because the ITV controllers are all external 4 controllers.

They have they have that in there in your system if you've been bitten by a you know virus and never leave you.

Are you still have that kind of thing and

I know what the BBC's like.

It's always in a very watered down.

It's very safe.

It's very short of any particular neutered BBC of the moment.

So I'm not sure about BBC but but don't talk about it because like me to divorce lawyers and I still don't want to talk about it.

I don't want my parents split up.

You know that mean I still dream that this is all going to go away that tomorrow wake up and it's going to be guess you know me and Nadine dorries if she said that but I don't know honestly don't know if it's can it be kept Channel 4 is it just a channel anymore? It's just before we we we we take a break for is there a least worst option for an owner because I think I had a monopoly in in TV advertising that I think doesn't doesn't make any sense and it would drive the price.

Create a wiring in how advertising funding is happening, so it's a possibility but I think it's a bit strange.

I think they're the risk of it being someone like BBC Studios and I've had this concern can I talk to you about how there are not enough companies working with channel 4:00.

You're sitting there big companies.

You are working the channel for using Channel 4 as almost like a an addendum to the development pipeline so the idea of you colour launcher format what you want something on Channel 4 in that allows you to get bigger international distribution or get the attention of an S4 it's going to happen with the circle for instance.

You know it's not on Channel 4 anymore.

It's been a lot happened by Netflix's result and I think if you sell it to a bandage a or ab stupid friend if you said it to eight producer then they will end up using it not as a something it's in the age of the pub in the ages of the bottom line of the business and and use it as a way of getting the attention of international buyers who are far more lucrative.

I don't personally see an obvious buyer and unless.

Literally strip the whole channel away from what is at the moment and effectively reboot.

It's something completely which which could be a here come to Channel 4 and see some experimental programs that may never be probably be a bit rubbish, which kind of what YouTube was the start with and that may end up on Netflix later on it's almost ok.

You know the first look for audiences.

Could be a thing but it's I just don't is such a wee wacky idea that it requires years of thought and it's not currently what we have at the moment ok.

We're going to take a break.

I'm going to catch up with Steven may at who's launching woo partnered with and then I'm going to drag couple gets back for the media quiz.

See you in a moment.

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Cast of the home to the podcast you are listening to right now and a deep dive this week.

I spoke to Stephen may ITV back media company come marketplace woo hoo Steven has big ambitions to do Media differently for the Next Generation plan to make wellness the next movement got a media Brand and a marketplace and it's all built around using products entertainment and storytelling to redefine wireless with you see original shows and you'll see wild playlist like a Murphy videos and a lot better tomorrow or designed to make you feel good and marketplace.

What's the Saying website.

Are we staying online store is it a conversation to have a website which we kind of a storefront and that kind of

I'm everything that we house but also because we're not focused on driving people specifically back to the site will also building digital ecosystems across different networks where we designed to basically keep people engaged in those ecosystems that means that we can create content that aims to basically serve people wherever they are close Media propositions.

I think in the past would say that the audience comes to wash for something that ideology or that thinking doesn't really make sense anymore because I wouldn't go anywhere anything besides from Netflix or a streaming platform actually the way everything works as we go to them and we should hope that we doing something interesting enough to get them to stop place is that building your own store inventory is that about affiliate marketing? Is it a combination of two? Is it is it still at Amazon warehouse type model yeah, it's going to be a combination of a

So as we was going to B&Q Reading Market Place Where working with lots of vendors.

We've already signed on over 30 or I can find multi-brand retail is and we're going to Curate the products that kind of like the customers perspective.

It's going to look like they're buying from a single store, but it's going to be fulfilled by the individual vendors on the other side.

We are also developing different types of our consumer products and consumer products are going to be I get very focused on Conor like driving a brand equity what we're going to do is used to replace the lifestyle because the marketplace is add-on because we're not gonna be buying lots and lots and lots of stock of you know a million different product it also means we can be reacted we can look at the train that was staying in our own digital ecosystems.

We can look at the conversations without audience.

We can look at actually what's popping up on tiktok and we can basically get those products within our store very quickly because

I guess the pathway to alkylation is it's a lot quicker than it would have been maybe 10 years ago.

It was trying to replicate the same business model a model if I look at something like what Mr beast's doing with dark kitchens in the US supplying his brand to infrastructure ecosystem that already and I guess there's a similar thing in lots of other verticals that you can plug into all of this stuff is the much more modern approach that may be lots of social media companies have employed as pretty as obviously one of your back.

Is is ITV1 the biggest media companies in the country when you went in with the plan? Why do they want to get involved if you do a few reasons? I think we have a very ambitious plan and because of my background and because of I get the strategic levers that I put together for the business.

They can identify the

It's a really ambitious plan with a lot of thinking about how to come and bring all those different elements to life because of its ambition it also means an opportunity for them to open up a new revenue stream that may be a business the size of ITV my take longer to kind of test within this face.

I guess one of the things as well as like we operate in business that allows us to play with different digital ecosystems and different types of Talent that maybe traditionally they may not be able to do because they are tied into the unit TV and kind of like their their goals and ambitions as a massive huge broadcaster, Andrew you can listen to Stevens full interview if your subscriber of the media podcasts on patreon.

Just go to patron.com media pod.

I'm back to play this week.

It's entitled allegations and denials three headlines for allegations have been denied or disproved in the media the leave out the key company or person and you've got to fill in the blank.

There's three rounds buzzing with your name if you know the answer so Farage your say and play excellent let's play allegations and denials right who claimed the trailer for the Piers Morgan interview with deceptively edited.

Stephen American going to you construct a shout and something like that but claimed at the trailer for Piers Morgan's interview.

I'll talk to me is doctored and fitted showing the former president losing his call did not happen in the order.

It should have done and we've had trouble in the past with trailers showing people walking out haven't Stephen problem all over again and it's exactly the same argument.

She was filmed leaving what film was walking in in a rush and they cut it and situate leaving in a fury.

So it's exactly the same PlayBook in ansible.

again Talk TV launches next week of a Chinese invasion

Steven this is the Taiwanese broadcasting company or something sent out a thing staying with being invaded by the Chinese everyone started to panic in the safety training thing that you got out of hand.

I love these kind of stories.

I love the idea that somebody actually writing this stuff on the computer screen than pressing send the goats.

What did they do it like come on my favourite is there's been a lot of people using video game footage and like saying that it from an invasion of things like that you got Louise who played that game that we not like it's far too often you with the Ukraine invasion that some people been using clips for video games and said that actually coming up on the ground terrifying, but that's no that is taking the few people to put that for anybody realises it's going out on the news channel the sources just getting get the hits that that's the important thing.

What's the rate of CTS anatonis news channel that caused the panic after a fictional news alert said Chinese missiles have been fired at cities and ports you would not want to see that pop up before your TV error was seen by a million people on weibo.

So they were probably enjoying the Taiwanese worries at that point and finally this number 32 this for the win who was night allegations of racial discrimination and having a toxic work culture that for a win piece of having a toxic culture the company repeat of the allegations calling them unsubstantiated and false, do they have a bit of an issue? Is it the same as you that a lot of broadcasters? How far is there?

Going on in Horseferry Road I think the industry have an issue continues having issue.

There's no doubt about that.

It's even mentioned previously about when you work a channel for you for that.

You've been injected by a virus and I I think I would agree with that sometimes viruses considered it good when you get when you come for them sometimes I can feel a little bit wheezy when you have them at the time and yeah, so that's that's my view initially with a slightly disbelieving are because I thought and yet another auntie Channel 4 story that's been to the run by the the writing process, but then I enquiries and heard rumours that the actual story is worse than we read and so there's more there was there was more examples of it, so I'm in a really difficult place.

I can't believe that the channels having for tea to be at about you know ending racism in helping people from different get forward in TV that they can suddenly fail.

The BBC have been been accused of this quite badly and recently so there is a problem.

I mean I just don't understand why there is such a big problem because they they they want to be the champions of diversity etc.

So how is happening? Why is it happening and please? Let it stop happening.

It's disappointing to say the least I will probably pick up on another episode that means you win the quiz I'm going to email you ebooks of all of Maggie Browns Channel 4 books from the past so you can get up on the other failed privatisation and hope that this one is that too I'm looking for it.

I've got a copy of it somewhere right.

I think it's under my bed excellent History Channel 4 book anybody that wants to know more about how how for became the weekend of brand beloved branded.

It is go pick up a copycat it's very good man.

And that's ok for today.

My thanks to frazzles Monet Tara Conlan Steven Wright keep track of what you and gold wire up to I'm on Twitter and we're Cold War logo underscore 1 on everything you name it with her and Stephen working people keep up with what your what you're doing well.

I'm basically returning back into the whole of ups and cool as far as you know but I am on the social but no know you'll see me sooner or later pop up in some horrible corner of The Dying industry TV look forward to that.

Thank you for listening today.

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