Read this: Charlie Brooker

BBC sounds music Radio podcasts from BBC Radio 4 is one of the most rarest working today is razor sharp writing on culture and the media ladies guardian.tv columns began 2000s Central Reading for it wasn't long until his acerbic and frequent la12 you found a home on BBC4 in the form of the TV review show he's also behind claim comedies like Nathan Barley he's reached global Fame with the series Black Mirror which is the singular form of technology-enhanced this week.

He launches season 6 and with anxieties about AI dominating headlines it couldn't be more topics which Ali hello welcome to the media before we get onto the series as everyone seems to be talking about AI at the moment.

What is your view? Is it the end of humanity or more other 94th could be somewhere between I would say I'm

Think like a lot of people so I've tied around with like the chatbots and things things like that chat GPT we actually on on the latest series of Black Mirror and then and then the next month chat GPT came out one of our episodes is quite timely the sort of AI generated imagery thing going on in one of our episodes, but I told around with them with chat GPT and you sort of typing like gonna come up with a black widow storyline or something like that say something that in the style of Philomena what something like that and it will do it will spit out something that first klontz you get a kind of sudden spike of dread and think that's it.

I'm out of a job.

This thing has replaced me because it looks convincing but that's really well at the moment.

That's really what it's doing.

It's just sort of emulating an impersonator it for now.

I'm not like that, but it is emulating stuff is smashing up stuff that other people have already done.

It's just hoovering up content and repackaging it and actually wants you sort of sit there and look at it.

It's very derivative and it's not it's you still need a human to come in and make it usable I think the danger for creatives.

Is that you can have a situation where executives a sort of using it to generate a bit of I pay the doesn't actually work until you get a human writer in to actually make something that's saleable or useable and of course that person there doesn't get paid more wouldn't get paid as much so that's alright in terms of whether it's going to sort of enslave us all or mucus and I hope not me to Paul McCartney the god of music has said getting a lot last Beatles record as a demo John had worked on we finished it will be released.

Johns voice got it pure through AI and then I'm happy with that I mean and he must be aware of the number of Saturday I cover versions that there are the people that live I would guess in an unauthorised way uploading onto various platforms where you can hear Paul McCartney singing you know that contemporary songs of today or whatever which is a scary world, but again what's an interest to us in that story is that it's about The Beatles and about the human beings who made all the stuff that we laugh and their personalities and their story is is actually what with actually interested in there, so I don't know if creatively it will take the place of human created because I think always be interested in people with narcissistic in that way some people you are seen as a bit of a Sage with that mirror a bit of a I don't anticipating the news well.

That's the rise of car.

Political figures and big brown Springer loved ones back from dead or even the prime minister committing a sex act on a pig that was the weirdest that was yes, that was weird.

I mean presumably you read that story later on and how I was writing an episode and my phone suddenly started going crazy and everyone's going have you seen this? How did you know and I thought well if I I wouldn't have written an episode about that.

I've run into traffic screaming like the guy at the end of invasion of the Body Snatchers know it's been quite a few storylines in black sails close to reality it seems after the fact that often really what I'm doing.

There is just looking at what's going on now anyway and lighting.

It is worth me saying of course that David Cameron and tylee, deny that it was why single Storey in a bit.

There's never been proven.

Incredibly popular, how did you back in the day come up with the idea? What did you set out to do? So when are you back yonder is like 2011 and written show called deadset which was satirical zombie apocalypse story where does season of Big Brother going out and the zombie apocalypse happens and the last people on earth to discover this other housemates within the other compounds it did well.

It was an absurd premise plate straight and I thought this is the sort of stuff.

I I like as I was growing up as heavily influenced by really like things like tales of the Unexpected and the BBC's to put on for today to be a thing will be weird one of plays that were about ideas and quite kuki and the twilight twilight said they'd shows on BBC2 I think again Channel 4 and so I said I wanted to do a show that was kind of like that really that was different sort of twist in the tail.

Where is the add a lot of variety in it that span different genres that was really the starting point and it's slightly it's got it became I think in people's head was just about technology.

I wasn't really where it started it started in weird and wonderful the first stories sort of not really just text and so that was that was really it was to try and do something with this.

Sorry that I did that originally referred to this.

I thought you said it referred to the screen through which realise that sort of take it was it was literally when you switch when a phone or an iPad or TV is off it still looks like a black man when you looking at also to be honest.

I just thought that sounds like a cool.

Slightly spooky name for that you're right.

So so there was a lot of that going on.

I just thought that sounds good as well.

Yes, but the fact that you had to do that voice for that implies that sounds a bit sore.

out like a bit uncomfortable with those description of the show was a warning about it was have to the doctor voice like blood if I'm sorry your dog is fears and reflecting more songs by this playful of the show is never far away and often the ideas actually come out of comedy conversation anyway, and I am thinking about in a something and I did that makes me laugh, but then quite often we pay straight having a season we got a mix of some of the episodes of The Horror it's been a bit of a change this season and had to cover my eyes mission accomplished so

Alternate paths I've been sort of mixing it up a bit of course.

I'm not all about 10 but I'm going to just continue the texting for a minute go through the series which is the line potential social media is something that you have return to Twitter Facebook YouTube they've all been accused recently removing the guardrails and moderation and I just wanted for you where you think the boundary is when it comes to freedom of speech to kill you push the boundaries when it comes to the imagination imagine you world States in mind all of that you prepared to go anywhere that are for you for my kind of self censoring or worried about causing offence or any of those hot-button topic so we worry about all don't think so really I think you're doing things thoughtfully I don't think there's a problem if you're if you're worries me about like guardrails.

Is this information that really worries me or you know the potential for there was that the thing wasn't.

Couple of months ago was it was an image of the Pope in a puffer jacket that was quite funny that went viral and it was generated by a generative AI they and that that's amusing but also utterly terrifying when you can see where that's going to go and that's the thing that worries me a lot is the potential for missing missing formation of disinformation.

I'm never quite sure I think there's been a disinformation campaign to make a think it's misinformation and disinformation formation.

That's that's a worry isn't it is and you can see the ages of Donald Trump been arrested fake and and so that's when is ironic.

That is fake news that I find terrified the thought of that going on checked I suppose as well maybe.

Doesn't get the credit for the lives, it's improved and it was amazing.

I'm not a lot and black mirrors and auntie technology shows so that's the other thing I get uncomfortable when people is not really cos always in the stories.

It's a human being you message things up generally it isn't and an amazing time.

I'm quite geeky that used to play video games journalist and I'm interline fascinated by anything like that immediately is appealing to me, but I think a lot of these things they're very powerful.

It's a bit like a spin like we've grown in extra Lympne overnight that we don't quite know how to use and it keeps it's great to have an extra them brilliant that we keep sort of Scilly knocking things over we're still coming to terms with out what a lot of this stuff means and how we can use it and we're quite clumsy as creatures, so that's that's the problem you can't put the Genie back in the bottle.

And I generally technology is in IT amazing and I want to talk a little bit about your career your beginning.

I think you started out as a cartoonist.

I did start out as a cartoonist.

Can you better profile matching with your garden TV corner of the screen, but what was it about the early 2000s you think they made it such a rich period to put for that TV I just reality TV started around then.

I don't know really I guess I guess that I mean and I was like they used to before that as a video games journalist and actually I think the and the language of that was sort of heavily influenced by the price of the 80s and 90s so so, I think was also a time when taking the mickey was sort of suddenly more permitted in mainstream newspapers and things like that so I guess that was that was partly why I used to do a website that was full of sort of weird and wonderful and often disturbing an awful mock TV listings basically and I stopped doing.

Reality started queueing quite close to the sort of thing and put it in there so yeah, they were all sorts of shows and video games and did you hope to make a career in gaming chose? You didn't graduate from university.

Cos your thesis didn't count just round the corner from here from where we are in my rota.

I wrote dissertation on video games and they doing a media studies course and they just missed it out of hand now that would be that would be fine, but I think it was it was nearly 25000 words on Sonic the Hedgehog effectively so I can understand to be fair why there and I haven't checked with anyone with that was ok and so yeah that I didn't get my degree because they said that didn't count another had 7 years to write a follow-up dissertation and I didn't bother you lazy.

No, but I thought I mean I did but then I spent the 9th and like I was I was I was working in shops and then I was doing comic strips and I was working in for video magazines night houses or wherever I felt like I was like in each other and I didn't know how how do you how do you go from there to having a always wanted to work in comedy? I couldn't quite say where's the path to get into that so and it turned out the doing websites was that thing that unlock and lock that for me in your life screen blank column in 2010.

He said he'd struggle to cancel your what is a critic of people recently working and socialising with you think it should be or honest about those kind of matters.

I don't know because I think it's more that could you you're well soon now obviously a make TV show so then I was working as a TV critic for a long time and I'd right you know quiet.

2 reviews of things quite often, I do remember meeting a TV critic from the Sun once who was saying to me about how the equation in his head was written something really rough about somebody if he then met them the worst what he'd written was the nicer.

They would turn out to be and so he Woods Haywards think to himself who's the swear word in this equation it works out it was himself to be that person don't want to be that person because everyone was trying to someone who once had a broken devoted entirely to TV criticism and do the column, what did you make in the Phillip Schofield Story 3 difficult situation to comment on that I don't really know because I didn't I tried not to watch too much of the coverage actually haven't even had a TV aerial in my house for 2 years.

That's not through some sort of Luddite style.

I'm going to refuse to watch some of the mainstream Media type thing is literally we had our loft done and then somebody cut god that was so I now watch everything sorted on Catchup what would Charlie Brook at The Turn Of The Century have made of the are you ok line which he maybe it would have been a dream for screenwipe.

Surely by you ok? It is a strange thing to be asking the viewer with other ok.

Cos we probably know is probably the answer general yeah, it's not it's not it's it's yeah.

It's so weird is a weird thing when a cosy show has gets involved in that sort of situation like that, wasn't it? Let's talk about bit more about Black Mirror is it went to Netflix in its third season before that you were Channel 4 which is a link updated you take a genuine risk in April

Agree with that but what happened what changed why did you leave leave Channel 4? Well I guess it was it was a bit tricky that was really what it was the boring the boring reality is that what happened was they they were there was something like this shows expensive and they kind of wanted could we do it's co-production with the us basically and then we found didn't look like we could and then we the show went out in America and became a source of a bit of a Kelsey thing and suddenly us networks were interested in it and so when we actually found as to the partner in in terms of Netflix US what you can do a whole you know do do two Seasons and this that the other and Channel 4 wanted to go through all the sort of outline.

Sing in advance before they took the green light the episode and we previously had a situation where I sent some ideas for potential third series and they sort of rejected them all so I became a sudden that's that's all what happened effectively.

Did you have any to the feelings of guilt or worry that you were leaving a public service broadcaster that had to choose your talent earlier on was there anchor I would have preferred it.

If Channel 4 have been more in the mix.

I guess but I didn't it was yeah.

It was a bit by then.

It was a little you know obviously also your sort of Selfish thinking when I want to write and create things and so if I'm being offered a lot of freedom to do that then I'm going to sort of take it in public service broadcasters when how do you see the future of them clearly you never been up against the disruption of the stream has Netflix been just one of them probably the biggest right now.

Where do I see the future?

Service Broadcasting I don't know because I don't know I don't know I get I don't know I don't know I love the BBC for instance and I think that you know why a lot of the BBC How the licence fees that I don't know I I hope it stays I've got but it's easy for me to say that and I think that I think they still again if you look at you know it's a cliche to say it but in times of like when there's a big national story of the windows 10 to the BBC and it's got an important role in intron in trying to bring the truth to two people in a way that some impartial or is impartial is in a way that so I think there's still a very important role in in in that respect yeah, but how you are you financially I don't.

My head but you was on the outside looks like you're an incredibly powerful and we use the term Shogun I don't know if you see yourself as a showrunner on a global franchise for one of silicon Valleys biggest do worry.

You've gone mainstream, Netflix once the upstart wasn't it? Not that anymore you know it's I don't know my password sharing it if it's become the big beast bad guys.

I think that I think that's do I see that as myself going mainstream.

Not I mean I think I've always try to do things that in my head like mainstream.

It's whether they received at Byers is the different you want to watch the stuff that you do and then the things you know what she like something like Black Mirror is quite quite a polarising show in some respects, but equally you know in my head is quite a popcorn show people.

Will enjoy it, so it's that which is quite difficult, isn't it? Yeah.

I'm especially you can't watch it on your phone and do that the same time she won't have any free hands so yeah, it's so so I'm only really trying to do.

I don't know I haven't I don't I don't know that I don't see myself as some sort of rebellious figure so listen to the one of the episodes in the new series you mentioned earlier the story of this in average woman who stands discover a global streaming platform was launched to sort of Prestige TV drama of her life.

Are you looking at you thinking about the length tech companies go to achieve engagement, how did Netflix respond to that but if it's not like the Netflix with the if it wasn't at least it wasn't Netflix think you said that's true the identity of everything Netflix

As as we're going on with what we got all we going to make this look like I'll let's what else we just asked if we could make it look like they're fixed and they said yes weirdly quickly again.

It wasn't like there wasn't any sort of dark the Amazing Stuff hopefully in there about there's again without like spoiling what the storyline is the song about why why how I'm trying to work out how to say this in a way that doesn't spoil the story at all and failing, but there's stuff to do with AI generated deepfaking show that sort of targeted towards specific individuals and there's something about it driving engagement, but it wasn't a specific.

It's Islam place of very lighthearted episode that is gently nibbling hand that feeds isn't it's not like I'm putting it off at the elbow Hollywood star founded by this author.

Turn the tables on them.

What were you hoping to say with that what you're not into so that's in the early 2000s and it's around the time just before in a way of saying the parcels just before the sort of smartphones in a way that sort of companion piece to dead Set which was the sort of zombie think it's like a it's like a story about literally came out if I watched like one of the documentaries and and and I was thinking about the situation in which some to turn the tables, so it's yeah, that's about as articulate respond like a must.

Have you been following the Prince Harry's story and he said he said it's just wondered it.

Just felt like it had it goes well.

You certainly got anyone's got a reason to be you know sensitive to the comings and goings of the paparazzi.

It's him so yeah, but I know I haven't again.

I've been in a bunker haven't really been following that I don't know about The Beatles story either.

I need to be quite often and use avoid I did quite often.

This is one of the reasons.

Why don't I don't watch much of the news anymore because I get it if it's something major happens.

It's it's inescapable anyway, but I used to do end of Year review shows where I would have to sort of summarise the Year which involve watching a lot live footage obviously and that would ruin my Christmas every year it would really depressed me sometimes.

We get genuinely get me down because of how much I had gone through the air.

Oh yeah and you're trying to both you're trying to you.

You're not making light of it.

You're you're you're you're you're making but you're making a comedy.

Hopefully Adam out of out of much of it, but it would go with it would sort the present I remember when I was when I was growing up another thing I used to like watching was things like spitting image or not the user whatever Wychwood satirise.

What's going on in in the world at the time and it would be sort of comforting in a way that they were other looking at like the cold war and say this is scary, but let's let's and then when you find yourself as an adult in the position that you're the person who's making satirical content for the TV handset content I hate saying content awful, but you know and then you realise but I'm just a scared and confused as anyone else.

That's the sort of that.

That's a horrible this stabilising feeling.

Do you see yourself as a satirist or a social commentator or how do you see yourself? Don't don't know.

Is trying to work on things that entertain me all the stuff? I do does a lot of satirical content in there, but I kind of that's not necessarily what I'm obviously what I'm interested in but it's not necessarily.

I'm not trying to Creuset sort of tell people what to think but there's quite often I guess that sort of stuff pops up in there.

I'm thinking of things like we did this joke on at which is a parody of history documentaries on in that.

There's a lot of like truth bombs.

I suppose thrown out but it's not but predominantly that shows purpose is to entertain you're not going to lose the need to entertain and and write and not trying going to be filtering what's going on now through what you're writing anyway.

You're already filtering what you can put in series 7 and possibly early days.

It is a long time to make the whole thing from this season.

I started out writing it during the pandemic.

So there's like an episode.

That's a little bit pandemic influenced for instance but but probably in a slightly right way cos you're influenced by what's going on without necessarily wanting to chat and in terms of Black Mirror now.

You know I suppose having dole.out and Times of TV prison yourself for so long.

Do you handle criticism of your own TV when it comes to show me annoying when if If by the way, I'm generally got had a really easy ride of it.

I would say but but you.

Show me annoying if people sort of criticise the show you're doing for something you're not trying to do if you if you said to me that that's annoying when people say what it should be saying is this opportunity to do this is what I think it should do that's just irritating as the writer when you when you come across that but I can't deliver now.

I can't complain about because I did my fair share of it.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for coming on the media show thank you.

Thank you for having me.